A complicated contradiction

Jonathan Banks tells Joe Heim what he thinks is the saving grace of his Better Call Saul character.

Jonathan Banks, 75, is a veteran actor who stars as Mike Ehrmantraut in Breaking Bad and its prequel, Better Call Saul, which is in its final season on Neon.

Banks was born in Washington, DC, and grew up in Chillum Heights, Maryland. He now lives in Los Angeles.

I need to start off with a confession, which is that I’ve watched all of Better Call Saul and loved your character and everything you did with him. But I’ve only watched one episode of Breaking Bad. Really? [Laughs.] How about that. Oh my God.

It’s a pretty embarrassing admission.

No, I think it’s kind of cool.

I watched the first episode and just thought: ‘‘Man, I can’t handle this.’’

Yes, you can. Yes, you can. Trust me. Breaking Bad only gets better.

The amazing thing about Mike and the way you play him is that he’s both this loveable, adoring grandfather and this surly, stone-cold. . .

Killer. Yup.

How do you pull that off?

Well, historically, people have been pulling it off forever. Including, you know –

[Vladimir] Putin’s probably great with his grandkids. Well, I doubt that. No, I mean, again, the ability of people to divorce themselves from the crimes that they commit. As far as Mike is concerned, I really love that character. And the only saving grace in his mind, the way I played it, the only decent thing about him is that he loves his granddaughter. He doesn’t forgive himself for his son’s death. He’s the cause of it. All the stupid platitudes that you can say about, you know, he’s moving ahead or blah, blah, blah. No. You’re responsible for your son’s death; you don’t move ahead.

We’re all complicated, but you bring that to the screen in a way that just resonated with so many viewers who love that character.

Well, I love that character. That broken, broken character. You know, you wake up in the middle of the night with regrets for things that you did, you know, in junior high school, for Christ’s sakes, or earlier – throughout a lifetime – and you can’t change it. I’m a hypocrite in the sense that, yes, I do move ahead. I, Jonathan Banks, at least try to move ahead from things that there’s no way I can change now.

Your portrayal of Mike is steady and unbothered, and balances out the frantic energy that Bob Odenkirk brings to Saul. I wondered if that extends off the set too? Bobby always has something going on. He’s going to write a book. He’s got to do this. He’s going to do that. He’s always got something going on. You could sit me down by the Reflecting Pool on a bench, and I would be content there all day long. [Laughs.] That is my energy. I could be content there all day.

When making Better Call Saul did knowing what happened to Mike make things more difficult or easier for you as an actor?

My approach to it was that Mike at that point has no idea. I think what possibly made it easier too is that Mike doesn’t give a damn about himself any more. His son’s death is a shroud that’s all over him. When his son died, Mike’s soul was lost. I think Mike fully expects that he’s going to die somewhere at some point in the end. And it’s a relief. He’s staying alive because of the debt he owes his son to take care of his granddaughter.

You did so much before both of these shows. And now there are YouTube compilations of Jonathan Banks characters over the years. Have you dug into any of those?

No. Never seen them.

What do you make of your career?

My wife doesn’t like it when I use the term ‘‘journeyman’’, but I’m very proud of that term. I’m a working stiff, and I like to look at myself that way. And that doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate great art, or what I judged to be or see as great art, great performances. But I know whence I came.

As Better Call Saul ends, are you nostalgic for your time with the show and Breaking Bad, or are you moving on?

It couldn’t have been better, but no. When something’s done it’s done. I will always feel good about it. What a great experience. And it’s time to move on. Now I’m about to go off to Berlin until January, where I’m doing a new show for Apple with Noomi Rapace, from The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo.

Is it sweeter having this success now than it would have been at the beginning?

I don’t think I’d trade anything. It is what it is. I’ll tell you what’s hard, Joe, is I really can’t completely comprehend how lucky I am. I can’t really take it in. And I think the older you get, the more you realise: ‘‘Oh my God, we’re all in this together, and we’re all very similar.’’ And you see the pain that’s going on in this world and you think: ‘‘How did I get this lucky?’’

The second-half of the sixth and final season of Better Call Saul is now available to stream on Neon. The last episode is scheduled to debut at 7pm on Tuesday, August 16.